In this episode, we welcome Justin Losh, Principal of Counter. Justin shares his path into commercial real estate and explains how he initially focused on apartment rentals but quickly transitioned to commercial real estate, drawn to the more dynamic and fulfilling work with small businesses, particularly in the food and beverage sector in Bushwick.

Transcript

Hal Coopersmith: Welcome to Brokers Angle. We are speaking to Justin Losh of Counter. Welcome, Justin.

Justin Losh: Thank you. Glad to be here.

Hal Coopersmith: So how did you get into brokerage?

Justin Losh: So it was not a direct route and it was an interesting journey. I mean, I don’t know how much time we have. I could probably spend the whole hour just talking about that. But I actually, I went to undergrad. In Indianapolis, graduate school in Philadelphia, I got my master’s in International Peace Studies Conflict Resolution. I spent time, in Africa. I even worked in some NGOs, interning, and I was really interested in development. End up in New York City I have an internship at the UN development program and I’m like you know I’m going to change the world I’m going to get into international development they work in a field office or work here in New York at the UNDP and long story short it was actually a pretty terrible experience I’m not one for governments. And endless tears to try and climb I actually prefer the jungle of real estate so yeah that was an interesting journey kind of long and I came to real estate fairly late you know probably already my late thirties when I when I started, so yeah I was at the UNDP really wasn’t enjoying the projects I was working on realizing, How politics work, even if the UN things are not really based on need or efficacy, they were based on politics and like what country may be donating to a program.

And you know, you spend all day in an office in Midtown. My dad had rental properties in Indianapolis and you know when he was younger, he was, he was taking care of them, keeping them rented. And then kind of got a little bit older and, and just started not finding renters as quick. And the property, a couple of properties were empty for a while. And it was something that’s kind of nagging me and as well I’ve always actually kind of been interested in in real estate just on the side like I used to live in this old Victorian neighborhood called Woodruff in Indianapolis where I’m from and it’s kind of like early and gentrification of like the year east side. And there were a few of the houses that people I was fixing up and like just really beautiful ornate and like. It’s kind of, like they were taking these old decrepit houses and turning into something like really cool. I like the neighborhood that are like this, these old fountains in these, like, you call it a promenade that went down the middle of the street.

They didn’t work, but, you know, like one time you could tell this was a beautiful neighborhood. And yeah, so he had these properties, they were empty. And I was like, Hey, you know, like, I’m going to come, you know, this was after the U. N. And I kind of was just feeling like lost. I’m like, you know, I don’t think I want to do this.

And this is also 2008, 2009. So hiring was also curtailed. A lot of the programs were not being funded and it was just, it was a hard environment for me to get a job and I was not enjoying it. You know what I’m going to go to Indianapolis for a month I’m going to like take one of these houses I’m going to renovate it and put it back on the market get a renter actually bought the house for my dad and I went and did it and I enjoyed the whole experience it was like you know going from like working in projects they’re actually having another country you know in midtown to like. Going getting my hands dirty and like hiring contractors and like, you know, doing the things that weren’t getting done myself and like the end was like this house that was like, he’s kind of nice. And I was like, man, like this was a fun process. Like, I think I want to keep doing this. Come back to New York and I’m like, well, what’s the easiest way to get into real estate?

And, it’s apartment rentals. You know, I just went on Google. I was like, you know, real estate offices and there was an office near me called Newkland. That’s where I started. I was like, oh, this like looks cool. You know its hip. This, this office went in, met Harley, which I don’t know if you know how he quotes, but he, he starting up like. He gave me the pitch and I’m like, I’m, I’m in, let’s do it and started renting apartments. So that’s, that’s the origin story.

Hal Coopersmith: And how did you get from apartments to commercial?

Justin Losh: Apartment rentals suck. It’s, you can only walk into so many places and be like, yeah, and it’s a stainless steel fridge, a closet, one bedroom. Like, I don’t know, want it, you know, I can show you five more that pretty much the exact same, like, you know, which one do you want? And especially being like Bushwick, Brooklyn, you know, like people live in those places a year, two years. Right. And it’s a younger clientele. So these aren’t like forever homes.

And it was just something about it that was like, wasn’t really challenging or interesting to me. And I was like, okay, well jumping right into development seemed to be not something that was feasible I mean yeah I could buy a house in Indianapolis and you know  a suburb and renovated but you know buying at the time buying a brownstone and trying to turn that into like you know some beautiful renovated spot just that I didn’t have access to that kind of capital you know so it’s like well okay I’m not going to go there like let me start at the bottom and, as I said, gets old pretty quick.  I realized residential is not for me. And I, there was someone else at Newkland who was doing commercial deals and, you know, started like working with him and eventually decided I wanted to start up a commercial team at Newkland and, you know, at the time they were thinking about diversifying out of, you know, just the apartment rental game. So that’s, that’s what I did. And, you know, it was, it was just more interesting because you’re, you know, you’re meeting people and they have like, kind of a problem to solve. Right. I mean they have an idea.

They have usually a passion because at the level I’m, I’m working at generally. You know these are owner operators especially more in the beginning and it’s someone that like has a passion they’re doing it themselves, so the scale of it was great you know like working one on one with the owner and I’m trying to help them you know fill a dream and I really kind of like that process. You know, it was also, there was like an end goal that I could see, you know, it was great. You know, you work in your first bar restaurant with someone and then eight months later it opens and you go in and you go to the opening and like you sit down and get free food and you’re like, yeah, like this is great. You know, like I helped make this. I really liked that. And I mean, honestly, I’ve been so involved with Bushwick because that’s where I started. I really do feel a connection to the business community there, you know, a lot of bars, restaurant owners. Like I know many of them, I’ve helped, along the way. I mean, even if I didn’t find the space, you know, talk to them about spaces or their, at least their landlord, you know, so I find it very gratifying actually what I do.

And, you know, tying back into the first question is it seems so far like, you know, you’re like, Oh, you were working at UNDP and now you’re a commercial real estate agent, but it’s like, honestly, I was always interested in development, like community development. I was always interested in small businesses and people like making something for themselves that they can find fulfillment in so it I feel like there’s really a through line and what I’ve always done and yeah that’s why I still do it.

Hal Coopersmith: So what is happening in the community of Bushwick what are the businesses what’s in need for the community what are they what is what is happening?

Justin Losh: That’s an interesting question definitely. The elephant in the room a little bit is like gentrification because I will say the other thing besides the UN and my real estate interest is that I worked in bars and restaurants since I was a teenager. It’s what I did while I put myself through undergrad it’s what I’ve done in between gigs and in between you know undergraduate and grad school and even some after graduate school. And so I’m really connected to industry and I wanted to start when I started Counter when I left no point to start Counter.

It was with the desire to focus on the food and beverage industry because it’s like I already understood it and I could already relate to those people and I felt, you know, kind of like a Venn diagram, like I could leverage that experience, even though it wasn’t owning a restaurant to working with people that own bars and restaurants and it’s really, it’s worked out.

So the Counter logo is actually, it’s a back bar underneath a front bar, you know, just like you have an all retail situations. Or for a restaurant, you know, and there’s the back bar where you have your curds, whether it’s bottles of liquor or some chains and your front bar where you’re servicing the client and, a logo is actually literally it’s a bar, it’s a count, you know, Counter retail is, you know, it’s our focus.

I started working with bars and restaurants because I didn’t have experience in that, and that was primarily my clients in Bushwick. I mean, that was, you know, that area in the last 15 years since I lived there has been gentrifying, a lot of young people have been moving to the neighborhood. In search of apartments and what follows, right? It’s like, well, places where they can go to eat and go to drink and socialize all the things. And that neighborhood, especially off the Jefferson stop has hit this point where, you know, I’ve been to a lot of, community board meetings and, it’s actually involved with the licensing committee, for a period of time. And there are a lot of people who are like, it’s too much. You know, there’s just. Especially that area, if, you know, the Jefferson L train stop area, it really has become a nightlife hub. So you asked me, what does the area need? You know, it’s interesting. It’s, there’s not a quick answer. I think the area does need, I mean, just get into a little other conversation about zoning and, you know, rule. Well, yeah, so come from the food and beverage industry, working with food and beverage and in that area really has become a nightlife nexus, which I think a lot of ways is great because you don’t want to, I think all You know, food and beverage generally, it benefits from having a proximity to each other.

So you kind of have this area where people can go and you can go to 1 restaurant and go to a bar, maybe go catch a show. And, and yeah, it’s the amount it’s changed in the last 15 years has been phenomenal. And, it’s pretty cool. It’s pretty cool that we’ve kind of been a part of that, you know? And, you know, I was saying, I think, I think some people in the community and the community board, definitely have been, you know, wanting to find a way to, you know, put some sort of governor on the growth, so to speak.  And, you know, I think there’s reason to, you know, have that conversation.

But in all, I think it’s, it’s put an interest into the area. And the thing is like that area has so much, I live there and I walk around a lot and, and there are so many lots in most of the areas zoned in one, right? So, I mean, that means you can build one story building and that’s about it. And manufacturing use, but that area is so close to the city. Like those jobs have already moved away. A lot of those buildings sit empty just because. The owners can’t get tenants and they’re really waiting for zoning to change or if they can sell the building to someone who’s going to do something in detail or build a club or whatever, you know, and that’s kind of like this push and pull, you know, like there’s people that like are like poo pooing that kind of development, but at the same time, it’s like, well, then what are we doing to try and make this stuff, these buildings, these lots useful so that we can create jobs, you know, and that’s something I’m kind of interested in, you know, that’s like my delve into politics later is like, you know, really, I feel like there is such a waste of space going on. I mean, I live off the Morgan L train stop, 15 minutes to Union Square. There was a city block for sale. There was someone that wanted to buy it. They wanted to build huge retail, entire city block, ground floor retail, and a hotel. It got poo pooed. They couldn’t do it because they’d have to change the zoning.

What happens? The owner ends up selling it to a self-storage building, they put a self-storage building, I mean, the entire block, 15 minutes from Union Square, it’s a self-storage building, probably employs one person,  and because of parking requirements, there’s a huge parking lot in front of it, they don’t even use it, they rent the parking lot to FedEx just to park trucks, cause they, they had to build it, but no one wanted it, There’s no one going to, no one’s going to rent the parking other than like some delivery trucks doing last mile distribution.

So that’s something we need, zoning reform. I guess that’s, that’s, that’s what we need.

Hal Coopersmith: Can you talk about the journey from Newkland to starting Counter?

Justin Losh: You know, it was kind of simple in a way. Like I was at Newkland, I was running a commercial team and it was a residential first company. Right like there that was a bread and butter they know where they made their money and that was the focus and you know sometimes in that environment you can feel a little second fiddle right it’s like well, I’m focusing on this I think we should focus more resources on this. I think it was just like a natural like a venture like you know you should probably go our own ways and I just started Counter. Josh Levy is you know your friend. Started it a year before the pandemic. So that was great. You know, like we’re a year in and everything gets shut down. So that was, that was interesting and challenging, but here we are, you know, and like, I think that’s sort of a testament I feel like, and it was proof to myself that, you know, we can, this thing is real and it has leg. And honestly, every year. I feel better and better like it was, you know, I didn’t take a traditional route of like going to business school. I didn’t start at Cushman Wakefield as a junior on some team like I went from International development to renting apartments so you know what I’m going to I’m going to start a commercial real estate company not advisable to anyone out there like don’t do what I did but I have to learn things the hard way and for whatever reason I’m interested in what’s challenging I don’t know why I’m just always drawn to that. And this was challenging so you know it’s like the harder it is the harder I want to work at it you know I think it’s you know I mean in this business generally you have to have a level of competition or you just can’t survive.

Hal Coopersmith: Speaking of learning things the hard way, can you talk about one challenging deal were you able to get the get across the finish line?

Justin Losh: I think the thing I’ve learned, is that as much as you know I was interested in and still am interested in commercial real estate because there is a business there’s a rational right reason supposedly we’re making our decisions and you know I prefer that over like just like the emotional draw like oh you know like this view right still. Decisions are mostly made based on emotion and then we find fat to back that up right what we find we rationalize so the challenging deals and I think that we’re probably like you know because stories for here they’re there you know me solving them how do you know it was really like. Meet it’s like it’s not about like me and what I did or like you know how did I fix this deal it’s just like riding the waves of people’s emotions and you know like you do what you can to like rain them in and try and keep people on track. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t but yeah so this is early on when I started and honestly like for me I think this was like one of the like first kind of like bigger deals you know it was it was a I guess I could say the name of it was it was a Wing Stop franchise I’m not going to mention any names but you know so you have this fast casual chicken chain and you know multiple locations.

You know great I’m repping the tenant actually here and  there’s this other broker repping the landlord and everything seemed great at first I mean I will say. The very first showing when the guy showed up he rolls up in a Rolls Royce sound like okay alright got some money got some style and this is Bushwick this is like Myrtle, Myrtle Broadway if anyone knows that area right Myrtle Broadway rolling up in a Rolls Royce. Looking at the space on Broadway on the train, things went well, you know, guys like super chill, you know, puts in puts an offer like to get to, you know, terms on pretty quick and all right, man, this is going great going to do this deal. National 10. It seems easy and this guy’s like super chill. So it’s around the holidays, right? And it’s around Christmas time. And for me, I’m going back, you know, it’s a family at Christmas over here. And it’s one of those things like hoping to get this thing wrapped up and get it to the attorney phase and, you know, all but signed hopefully before then. Because you know, I want to spend time family.

Well, of course it’s not. And we’re still, you know, there’s like an all hands call that we have to have and it’s December 24 and I’m like at my brother’s house and the attorney, so the guy was super cool, but his attorney. Was like a pitbull and the client you know you wouldn’t step in like he just let it roll you let it roll and like we were literally on this call his attorney is like screaming at the other attorneys like no when you talk about you don’t know what you’re talking about like blah blah blah.

You know, threatening, you know, this, that, like, it was, I just had never been on a call to that point where people were like, literally like screaming at each other and then I’m like, well, this is dead and I’m stressed out and like, my family’s like, Oh, you know, why are you on the phone so much? Like, come spend some time with us, you know, and just like, oh, like, this is terrible. It just evolve the whole thing to a screaming match. And then it’s like, okay, great, you know, here I am, it’s Christmas Eve, like, totally stressed out, deal’s going to die, and I’m like, this, this sucks, like, this is just too much. After the holidays they signed the lease and then the guy he didn’t even open he actually then leased the space two doors down put in the chicken chain, the fast casual chicken restaurant and in that space he opened up a different concept like which totally pissed the landlord off to it was like what do you think what are you doing. Yeah that was a difficult deal.

And I have one other probably actually the most difficult deal. And again, I don’t want to name names, but it was in the reside and I was helping someone,  sell their business, you know, like this during the pandemic. And they were just like, I got to get out from under this. And, you know, and this person has other successful restaurants and, you know, like you just great client. And I had known him and he was like super nice and, you know, successful what he does and, you know, helping them, we, we find a buyer. The strange thing is actually the business occupied two different buildings. It was, they had literally two storefronts side by side and they connected them and they had two leases. I mean, again, a complicated, complicated thing.

Hal Coopersmith: I’ve seen it.

Justin Losh: Yeah. So, in order to do the assignment, we had to get both landlords to agree to the assignment. And the one landlord, which I was dealing with, who I’ve worked with a lot, easy, awesome, you know, rational, like, and also like, hey, it’s the pandemic, like, let’s just get someone in the other landlord, someone that’s been written about in the real deal a bit, you know, for lawsuits and what you’d expect is, I guess, a tough landlord. He gets on the phone well we were having some issues right so disagreements and then the investor of the original tenant was the was the tenant’s father who happened to be an old Wall street broker from the eighties who now lived out in the Midwest somewhere like Kansas whatever but like he used to live in New York City and i was a city and he had the temperament of you know some wall street broker who’s like, tough as nails. He got on the phone and started insulting the landlord like I mean literally calling him names like I had to stop the call I was like I’m like hey okay like we’re not getting anywhere I think we should just in this for now let’s like revisit later, yeah that was a difficult one and again you know it’s like when you when you start literally insulting people like, you know it’s a hard deal to get done and it was very hard and he created a very difficult situation with me and but you know, it’s like all the deals right

Hal Coopersmith: and did it get over the finish line?

Justin Losh: It did, partly because you know it’s interesting I say like most deals will like either fail or succeed really like if all parties want something to happen like it’s going to happen you know I do feel like there are there is that marginal piece that you do affect you know where just your abilities to get something done are important and will you know. Close the deal, I feel like that was one for sure. Like I had to get involved and really placate people and bring the temperature down and carry it to the finish. Was it worth it? I don’t know, you know, because you start to calculate the time and effort and you’re like, and the fee, you’re like, oh man, I don’t want to do another one like that, but honestly, if we didn’t do that, like, would it be any fun? You know, it’s really, we can sit here for two hours just talking about it. You could tell me many stories.

Hal Coopersmith: About crazy parts of deals.

Justin Losh:  Yeah. Like That’s what makes this job fun and interesting. It’s not really as much like the real estate. It’s the deal. And it’s funny. It’s like, you know, the art of the deal or whatever. It’s kind of like this cliched book or whatever. But like, if you are in the business of deal making, like, it actually is super exciting, super fun, and it’s super hard, you know, and you wonder sometimes when you know, like, why do I do this? Like, this is like difficult for me emotionally, mentally, like, on my life, you know, like, and then you do it, especially when you succeed. Oh, all right. Let’s do it again. Let’s, I glutton for punishment. Maybe like,

Hal Coopersmith: Like having a baby.

Justin Losh:  Yeah. Like having a baby, for the viewers. Yeah. Just, I just had a baby four months old.

Hal Coopersmith: That is a wonderful note to end things on Justin Losh. Thank you for being a part of broker’s angle.

Justin Losh:  Thank you. I hope it was fun. I hope you have fun watching the story.